You suspect mold in your home. Someone in your family has symptoms that baffle doctors. Where do you start?
Test your home before cutting into any drywall or lifting any carpet. Disturbing the mold spores can make a situation much worse.
There are several options for testing. Mold plates found in hardware stores do not "pull" the air and provide a limited picture of your air. A toxic mold issue can easily be missed when using this product.
Initial testing can include an ERMI test (Environmental Relative Moldiness Index). This involves a dust sample. Two companies which offer this analysis include EMSL Analytical, Inc. and EMLab P&K.
The ERMI kit offered by EMSL has a 5 day turnaround time and costs $150. Click here to order.
Another option is an air test, which is less optimal than a dust or tape sample. An air sample taken in Chris' office showed no mold contamination. The dust samples showed high levels of aspergillus. Enough for him to vacate the office.
A third option is a tape sample. This can be used if the mold is visible.. EMLab P&K charges 30 dollars per sample with a 50 dollar minimum. Click here to see more.
A fourth option is a combination of carpet dust samples, air samples, and tape lifts done by a hygienist. If you believe litigation will be involved, it is important to hire a hygienist.
Questions to ask before you hire a hygienist:
1. Do you believe mold is harmful? (The answer must be yes.)
2. What constitutes a "safe" level of mold? ( In an air sample, mold counts should be equal to or below outdoor counts. There should be no stachybotrys. Not one spore. Aspergillus should be present only at negligible levels. The standard in Belgium requires no more than 2 1/2 percent aspergillus in the total count. Our hygienist cleared our home with 40% aspergillus. I wish I had known to look for this.)
3. Can I see the report? (Do not rely on a hygienist's word. It's important to see your counts for yourself. Especially when it comes to levels of aspergillus.)
If you've had mold remediation in the home and feel unsure about the air quality, consider a high-volume air sampler. This equipment draws large volumes of air using a high-speed rotary motor. One source of information on this option is available through Real Time Labs.
If your symptoms are severe, consider leaving the environment to see if you feel better.
The cost associated with mold testing is often a stumbling block, but it can save you thousands of dollars later. And think of what you would save if you have this kind of test done when buying a home! Our family's story is proof of this.
Where do you begin medically? You can take the VCS tests available through Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker. This is an affordable way to determine if mold exposure is making you ill. There is a urine test available through Real Time Labs. This urine test is also available through Direct Laboratory Services, Inc. Look for the aflatoxin, ochratoxin, and tricothecene tests under the allergy heading. It can be difficult to find a physician who understands toxic exposure. The American Academy of Environmental Medicine has a list of doctors who may or may not be familiar with toxic mold. The American Board of Environmental Medicine is preparing an Internet list of physicians. Another option is the Institute for Functional Medicine. The website Truth About Mold offers this list of physicians. If you have a primary doctor willing to consider mold exposure as a cause of illness, ask for specific labwork such as c4a, VEGF, MSH, and leptin. Or ask for the full set of labs. Alternative health care offers a wide range of diagnostic and de-tox options as well.
The mold journey is a daunting one, but knowledge is power. It is better to deal with mold than ignore it. Our story is extreme. I know of "happier" mold stories where mold was suspected, testing was done, and remediation performed. No one got sick, because the mold was dealt with quickly and thoroughly. I know of others who suspected mold and found nothing harmful.
We spent 8 years without the knowledge that our home was making us sick. We've spent the time since vacating our home (October 2008) with it. Believe me, it's much better to choose knowledge. It's painful, but with truth there is freedom.
32 comments:
Hi Andrea -
I just wanted to clarify. Are you saying that even IF the indoor levels are lower than outdoor levels and within range, the aspergillus still needs to be less than 2%?
Thanks for such an informative post - it is very helpful!
Trish (trish@markmountan.com)
Yes, exactly. Our spore count was even with the outdoor count. Just too much aspergillus which indicated an ongoing mold problem.Again, this is not common knowledge among hygienists.
I recommend this article by Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker that contains very detailed info about using ERMI and basically says that mold testing is not complete without using ERMI.
http://www.biotoxin.info/shoemakerblog/viewtopic.php?t=22
This is one of the many helpful articles from his message board.
We have done several ERMI tests this year at multiple residences to look for connections to our biotoxin illness. It has been eye-opening. We've used both Mycometrics (www.mycometrics.com) and EMSL (www.moldinspectionkit.com), 2 of the best ERMI labs out there. EMSL is cheaper ($150), but Shoemaker recommends Mycometrics ($285).
Just to clarify, you do not need a hygienist to do an ERMI sample. Depending on what your ERMI result shows, however, you might want to hire the hygienist to coordinate further inspection/remediation as Andrea suggests. The hygienist will run another $500 at least.
Thanks Andrea and Tom. I am currently looking at a report from 2005 and trying to interpret the results. I need to call the company that did the testing and see if they can tell me percentages. I am doubtful. Should we decide to get our house retested, I will definitely consider ERMI. I do appreciate the links. Unfortunately we are in the position of trying to figure out if we should just sell because if we test and find a current problem, we will then NOT be able to sell the house.
Dear Trish,
Can you tell me the difference between white mold and black? Is white mold dangerous?
Thanks,
Jan F.
Hi Andrea... My name is Carmen and I live in TN. My father began having unexplainable symptoms in December of last year. He is now chronically fatigued along with a very sore pallate, nasal passages and gums. He has many other symptoms and until now we have had no success with any doctors in our area. Last week he made an appointment with his sleep apnea dr and he out of the blue said maybe you have mycotoxicosis. We had never heard of it and began searching the internet vigorously to find information to help and find him some relief as he is in much distress. After stumbling upon your site I see that his symtoms are very consistant with those you have listed. The sleep apnea doctor prescribed him Nystantin oral to swish and swallow. We are wondering where do we go from here? We need a doctor in our area that knows how to treat this and we dont know where to turn.. ENT... Infectous Disease or etc.? He needs relief and is in much discomfort from this. He has seen 6 dentist and doctors since his symptoms began and no one until now has even mentioned this possiblity. Thank you in advance for your time and for any helpful advice or information you may have. Carmen
Carmen,
This doctor sounds quite knowledgeable. Perhaps he has some ideas for you.Do you know if your Dad is living in a home with mold amplification? Has he had any water damage? This would be an important aspect to consider. The next suggestion is to treat him with the anti-fungal Phase One diet authored by Doug Kaufmann. You can find out more at
his website www.knowthecause.com.
Feel free to email me at akfabry@comcast.net.
So glad you're getting answers!
Andrea
Hi Andrea
We are in the midst of something that I think may be caused by mold as well.. each of my four very healthy (9yrs and younger) children have developed a bacterial pneumonia in the past month and with no previous virus or any health issue going on..we are a family who has not needed to go in for even an office visit in 4yrs. Thank you for all your info, we are going to be checking our house and doing what we can to make sure that this is not a continued problem if at all.. we did have water leaking this spring with the heavy rains and we are in a 9yr old home...I feel God definitely had his hand in me hearing your husband's program and little bits and pieces of what you are all going through. My prayers are going out for you both and all of your children..may you be able to continue to praise Him and give thanks in all circumstances!
Is it possible that neuropathy caused by mold can continue after you leave the moldy house? We have been out for 2 1/2 years and my pain continues to increase. The Dr's say there is no reason for the pain, they don't believe it is neuropathy, but they can't give me any other reason for it. What type of specialist would be able to diagnose and treaat this problem?
Systematic fungal infections can last a long time after leaving a toxic environment. If you are sure that you are in a safe environment now, I would consider looking into the foods that may
be contributing to ongoing exposure. Foods such as corn, wheat, peanuts, highly processed foods, etc.
We have seen tremendous results by altering our diet to include the whole foods. I have a daughter with neuropathy that has responded well to the diet change. A specialist who understands the damaging effects of toxic mold would also be excellent. They are difficult to find. Sometimes those in the alternative fields of acupuncture, chiropractry, etc. understand the hazards of mold.
Just some thoughts,Mildred. Please feel free to email me at andrea@chrisfabry.com
I just watched your show and I did wonder if all persons in the home had some type of illness or did eveyone suffer from cronic illness's. The reason I ask is because as a family we have had several differnt small issues such as common cold that lingers with one person but does not spread to others, few breathing issues earlier in the year than my son would have normaly experience them. The Huge illness is my 11 year old son who has been ill for the last year with severe abdominal pain, reoccuring vommiting and uncomtroable dierrah. He has had endless tests all coming up with nothing wrong. We are in a 4 week bout of stright illness right now the longest ever for him and he is so worn down you can see in his eyes, It inferiates me at the doctors that they cant find a reason but mostly it breaks my heart watching him spend the best years of his life in bed sick. I guess my guestion would be is it possible for one person in the home to be severally ill and others not? Any advice taken - we are out of options
Thanks Worried mom!
Dear Worried Mom,
I can so relate with your pain. Yes, it's possible for one person to have symptoms with an environmental issue.
He is at a very very vulnerable age.
It could also be unrelated to his environment but it's important to rule it out.
Can you email me
at andrea@chrisfabry.com?
Hi Andrea, We moved into a 200 year old house about three years ago. This house has had major water leaks over the years and has a very damp basement. We recently remodeled the kitchen which had insulation in the ceiling that was covered in mold. We have also found mold in the bathroom. My sons and my wife have been extremely sick since we have moved. Doctors really just keep telling us that it is just a bug. Nut they get the bug an awful lot. I heard you mention on the show that there was a test that the doctors did to regsiter mold. can you tell me the name of the test and what kind of doctor needs to administer it. I would greatly appreciate your help. You can reach me at jwchapman@srk12.org
You are wise to consider this as a possibility! I assure you it is no coincidence that they are sick and you had mold remediation done.
I'm not sure which testing you are talking about medical or home testing.
I will talk about both.
You need immediate environmental testing. My suggestion is to call 3 hygienists and request that carpet and/or dust samples be taken of your home. I say 3 hygienists because it is critical to find someone who knows what they're doing. Many are unaware of the health hazards of mold and don't know how to accurately test for mold.
Air testing would also be good, but air testing without dust sampling will not give a full picture of the air you're breathing.
You want to be sure the hygienist knows the types of toxic mold (stachybotrys, aspergillus, pennicillium),that you can get a full report, that the hygienist uses a lab to get his testing results.
The testing is expensive but necessary and is a worthwhile investment for the sake of your family. You can expect to pay between 500-1000 dollars for initial testing. If you find someone who can do it for less there's a strong possibility they don't know what they're doing.
Again, you want to interview this person carefully before hiring them.
As far as medical testing, the most immediate way to find out if mold is behind their illnesses is to do urine testing through Real Time Labs in Texas. These tests must be ordered by a doctor, and often not covered by insurance. You can also do blood testing which will show an immune response to mold.These are the c4a and the VEGF.Doctors seldom know these tests but they are done by Labcorps and Quest.
There is a biotoxin lab order sheet available on the internet..which includes these tests. (see above). You can take this sheet to your doctor and request these blood tests.
I assure you, you are on the right track by asking these questions. Good for you. I applaud your willingness to get answers.
Please don't hesitate to ask any follow-up questions,
Hi Andrea,
I watched you guys on the 700 club. I've been sick for six months, I spent a week at the Mayo Clinic in Arizona with no new diagnosis other than my chronic fatigue was back in new symptoms. The funny thing was that I started getting better away from home. We had our home tested and have massive amounts of many toxic molds. I've been out of the house for six weeks and have just started the journey you've been on for awhile. I'm so overwhelmed by all of it. I'm trying to trust the Lord and find peace in him. your blog has given me some where to feel connected. Finding treatment has been next to impossible. We are still in limbo trying to sort out all this information. I have so many questions I'd like to ask you if you don't mind, one of which is: does Arizona air and dryness help? We live in Southern California and are wondering if moving to the desert actually helps. I'm still looking for help physically as well as what is safe to clean and remove from the home. I'm praying for your family, I understand what you've been through, this is such a difficult time and for some reason I feel close to you all after reading your journey. You are the only other family I've heard of that can relate. Thank you for going public and telling your story. I pray the Lord will use us someday also.
Vickie (veleppo@yahoo.com)
Hi Andrea,
For some reason a few weeks ago I listened to a June Midday connection of your mold problem. My mom recently passed and the old homestead is over 100 yrs old and I remember cleaning a room last year and seeing black mold on the baseboard, a lot of it. Is this the kind of mold we need to worry about? It is a room where a lot of boxes were stored and the house is brick.
Also my son who is 29, was recently diagnoised with crohns. Does this always come from leaky gut syndrom , he moved to WA four years ago and the dr said he has had it about 4 yrs is this a coincidence from the move?
Have been all over the site, it is very overwhelming at times but very interesting--thank for the way the site is put together and very helpful---Susan
Susan,
This is exactly the type of mold that is potentially toxic. You are asking great questions. Crohn's is one of 14 diseases associated with mycotoxin exposure. The article can be viewed at this website:
http://www.mold-survivor.com/assoc.illness.html
As we started to connect illness with the mold we began to see lots of similar "coincidences". If you have any further questions please feel free to email me at
andrea@chrisfabry.com
Andrea,
What does the leptin test for? I have information on the c4a, VEGF, and MSH but not much on leptin and its connection to mold. Thanks for your help.
According to Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker of Mold Warriors,
"leptin hormone is made by fat cells. Its also a cytokine that participates in regulating body mass, and storing fatty acids efficiently. It also activates production of MSH, which in turn regulates much of the immune response from the innate immune system. High leptin and low MSH are the markers for obesity caused by toxins. With high leptin in a biotoxin patient, weight loss is incredibly difficult."
Dearest Andrea and family, We are so glad that God has opened you to see the cause of your illness and helping you find resources not only to help your family but others as well. I am in a situation where we know of a large cluster of families who may be exposed to several environmental issues but all have simular mold ties. We are military and live with sub standard water and mold issues in on base housing and many of our symptoms began as they tore down the houses we had been living in. I wonder if wind and soil or even trees could be hiding possible mold sources and if there are any Dr's we might consult. I am fully aware of mold in the buildings here as well, but mostly need to find the specific mold that could be causing my son's seizures and other symptoms so we might be able to detox or find other solutions when leaving the area is not an option. Also, could you refer someone in Colorado Springs for home mold inspection and remedial as we would like to make sure our home is safe there. Thanks so much. Yvonne
Yvonne,
Try the American Academy of Environmental Medicine
http://www.aaemonline.org/
for a physician.
I do have two names to give you for help in Colorado Springs. Can you email me at andrea@chrisfabry.com?
You are wise to connect environment with illness.
Andrea
For over 1 1/2 years I have been running to my doctor for various reasons... I have been having irregular menstrual cycles, being overly irritated by minor annoyances and noises, unable to concentrate, my memory has gone to the dogs and I am on a sure path to losing my job. I have destroyed relationships that were once strong and associations in the workplace and personal life. I have gone from thinking that I must be going through menopause early because of the stark changes in my personality and moods. I have yet to find a doctor who does not look at me like I'm crazy or suggest that there is something wrong with me. That has been my battle for the last year and a half. I am a manager and I have hardly managed to perform my job. I have missed important deadlines, gotten snappy with my boss and the people I serve. I have strongly felt I should quit my job over the last year. Although the desire to do well is there, it is as if I am not able to perform any more.
Recently (within the last two weeks) it was discovered that there has been mold growing in my office for several years. I never associated any of what I was going through to any mold issue; however, a couple of weeks later I recalled a television show about a man whose life was wrecked by exposure to mold toxins in the home.
When I looked up the symptoms of mold poisoning, I found that I have the majority of the common symptoms. Even things I had yet to mention to anyone and weren't the most annoying of what I'd been going through.
As soon as I found this out, I went back to my doctor to be checked out for this. The doc admittedly did not know much about this condition and recommended a doctor who specializes in fungal infections. That appointment is still in the future... I am anxiously awaiting...
Needless to say, I have only mentioned the fact that I think my illness is due to the mold to my immediate boss and there seems to be a bit of apathy regarding this. I am the one responsible for handling the mold issue at work and it seems there is more interest in my immediate behavior than in whether or not I am being poisoned by my environment or the fact that my environment may be keeping me from functioning properly.
I feel the need to leave; however, am reluctant to leave a situation in the state that it is because of me and also can't be there any longer because of my health.
Don't know what to do??? Please help!! In AZ...
Dear Anonymous,
I suggest you take a leave of absence or vacation time to gather your thoughts. It is clear there is an environmental issue at your work. You have a legal right to healthy indoor air in the workplace. Unfortunately it is extremely difficult and complex to get help in this regard.
You are on the right track to connect irritability with toxic mold. I have seen this first hand.The fact that you have numerous other symptoms tells me that this mold in your office is toxic.
Your top priority is to protect your health. If I can help in any way please let me know.
Andrea
andrea@chrisfabry.com
I am reading the comments and I am so overwhelmed! We had a bad roof leak over our living area for five years, the carpet has mold, and I have many symptoms. Don't know where to begin, as we have no money to treat and remediate the problems. Our marriage is suffering due to my inability to function at a basic energy level. Do we move? The children are all grown, but our one daughter still at home has had water seepage into the cement foundation in her room. I don't even know where to begin...
Salli Jo,
I understand completely. It is so overwhelming. Now that you've made a connection between your symptoms and your environment you can process the next step. Please don't hesitate to email me if I can help in any way.
Andrea
andrea@chrisfabry.com
Hi Andrea, I know we have black mold in the house and am thinking I should hire a hygienist, should I first do the home test? And, can you recommend someone in the Chicago area (northwest suburbs)? Thank you!
Cam,
I am familiar with one hygienist. Can you email me?
andrea@chrisfabry.com
Good for you for addressing this!
Andrea
Interesting site some good information for people that are in the dark.
The mold issue is a mess on several levels. There is active resistance to slow the progress of science. This area is not regulated which means the people involved in cleanup really do not have to be experts, they have no code of ethics they may or may not know what they are doing.
There is need for regulation to set some basic standards.
Drs. Which to see, go to a environmental physician, they will on average have the most knowledge concerning a variety of disease processes, mold is just of many they deal with. The odds of your family physician having a good understanding of the issue is low. There is a basic mold paper that is sent out for some basic understanding. This paper is lacking but is better than nothing. You will likely get a nervous response from the physician when you implicate that mold and a home or even work place to your present illness. This is just a basic fear of lawyers which is actually quite powerful, it is strong enough (In my opinion and experience) to cloud their judgment. Like it or not this is the case. Not all Drs. are like this but you would need to find one that not only understands mold ie. they have actually read some research and also will put the patient ahead of their fears.
There are tests to be run. Some are IgG antibody tests for specific molds, again they are available and approved by FDA. Other tests like urine are not approved yet. This does not mean they are of no use, it does mean they will be hammered in court (if there is a case). There is a Stachyb. scratch test that is quite old. You will be told its not available or they never heard of it. It is available but good luck finding it. The mold panels most allergist carry are for very common OUTDOOR molds. Alternaria etc. Not to say that these molds are not an issue, but you may find it a bit unscientific to be tested for an outdoor mold of one species when the mold in your home (that could be making you sick) is a totally different species.
Ask the allergist why they do not test for the molds found in your home. I would like to hear the variety of answers. One answer which does make sense is that certain molds via a defense mechanism will produce a toxin. The amount can vary but it is difficult to separate the toxin from the mold. The two reactions are not the same. The mold with no toxin can produce a typical allergic type I reaction. The toxin portion is more of a irritant. The effects could be called type III,IV allergic (ie poison ivy type) or even cytotoxic, meaning it can kill a cell on contact. The reactions are totally different and both would be present in such a scratch test.
The bottom line is the science is not clear cut but it is pointing to the toxins. The argument has been that they only produce the toxins under rare conditions. This has been disproved recently both scientifically and also by common sense. It is more likely they will produce the toxins, it would be very unlikely for them not to produce them especially if they are in a room with other competing molds. They use the toxin to eliminate the competition, its basic Darwin science at work, nothing new or unexpected.
There are no set regulations as to how much a human can tolerate. The truth is this varies, some people can take alot of it with few ill effects. Others crumble.
I'll list a few of the effects
1. Allergic type one. common
2. Irritant - from toxins and VOCs, they are irritants. If they directly kill surface cells or merely irritate them, inflammation is common and that inflammation causes some damage.
3. The toxins themselves are a bit complicated but some of them can directly kill neurons. This is dose dependent but some are a bit more potent that expected. The experiments have been done on rats not humans.
4. This is an area that few physicians from any area address. They may tend to blame all effects on the mold. This is partially true. The mold can serve as a trigger for reactivation of latent microbes already in your body. Examples of this is a very common virus that 80-90 percent of the population has in their bodies. Any of the herpes family can be reactivated via various types of stress. Does not have to be mold.
The mold can decrease the immune system in a variety of ways. Some of the toxins do this, the allergy effect can also do it. Treatment via steroids inhaled or oral can activate.
These reactions are generally treated as purely allergic and no antibacterial coverage is offered.
I could go on but its a bit more complex that one might think.
Ask the allergist why they do not test for the molds found in your home. I would like to hear the variety of answers. One answer which does make sense is that certain molds via a defense mechanism will produce a toxin. The amount can vary but it is difficult to separate the toxin from the mold. The two reactions are not the same. The mold with no toxin can produce a typical allergic type I reaction. The toxin portion is more of a irritant. The effects could be called type III,IV allergic (ie poison ivy type) or even cytotoxic, meaning it can kill a cell on contact. The reactions are totally different and both would be present in such a scratch test.
The bottom line is the science is not clear cut but it is pointing to the toxins. The argument has been that they only produce the toxins under rare conditions. This has been disproved recently both scientifically and also by common sense. It is more likely they will produce the toxins, it would be very unlikely for them not to produce them especially if they are in a room with other competing molds. They use the toxin to eliminate the competition, its basic Darwin science at work, nothing new or unexpected.
Common Overlooked Mold Source In Homes
In 2002 I burned my home down because it was beyond repair because of mold. As you can imagine, I have studies this issue ever since. There is a respiratory threat along with aerated mold and bacteria from jetted bathtubs.
Jetted tubs, often called Jacuzzi’s, have about 15-20 feet of plumbing lines that run underneath the tubs. These lines are full of warm stagnant water that is full of biofilm, mold, fungus and bacteria. If the tub isn’t cleaned properly, with a cleaner designed to clean jetted tubs, you run the risk of bathing in very, very high levels of bacteria and breathing in aerated mold and bacteria.
Use a jetted tub cleaner like Oh Yuk Jetted Tub Cleaner, that was designed to clean jetted bathtubs for the lodging industry. This will ensure that you are bathing in clean bathwater, and breathing clean air.
Thank you for this comment. We have a jetted tub in our rental home. I never use the jets but when I clean the tub with the jets lots of debris/microbes will come out. I use 35% strength hydrogen peroxide to clean and then use Q-tips to clean around the jets. Thank you again for posting this.
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