Saturday is cleaning day at our house. Out come the spray bottles filled with white vinegar. It's amazing how clean a home can feel with white vinegar and a little baking soda. This past weekend I did some extra cleaning. I filled our master bathtub with water and some food grade hydrogen peroxide and turned on the jets. Not that I use the jets. Any added potential plumbing problem is outside my comfort zone.
11-year-old Colin said something interesting as he walked by the spewing jets. "Remember when Brandon and I took a bath in our Colorado house and we turned on the jets and all this black stuff came out?"
I sighed. Just as I do anytime one of the kids has a memory like this. He's 11 years old and he understands there were clues to the mold we discovered.
Just recently we used a vaporizer for one of my daughters. Immediately my mind turned to the chunks of black stuff I'd find in the bottom of the vaporizer anytime I'd use one. For years I would empty it and shake my head in wonder. I just assumed our water was “dirty.” I kept buying new vaporizers. We needed them constantly for breathing and congestion issues.
Sigh.
It's so obvious in hindsight.
Recently I heard this from a friend:
The entire time we lived in our (mold-infested) house the kitchen sponge would get musty smelling within 3-4 days. It was so strange. I had to buy a pack of sponges nearly every week. Even now I still always smell the sponge before using it.
She also made this connection:
In my moldy home if I left the wet clothes in the washer they would get musty very quickly and I'd have to re-wash. I was constantly re-washing loads of clothes. Sometimes I'd run a load, go to work, and they'd be musty when I returned that evening. That is very fast and we were always scratching our heads about that one.
Funny, Chris and I would argue over the laundry. He was convinced that I was combining clothing with towels. It wasn't an argument, really. He was simply trying to figure out why our clothes smelled musty most of the time.
During our second remediation I tried to salvage a pair of jeans. I was willing to toss all of my clothes. Just not my favorite jeans. Oblivious to the reality of our exposure, I took them to a local dry cleaner. I'll never forget the sight of the owner's face as I handed her the jeans. She crinkled her nose and said, "I can't accept these. They smell way too musty. Don't you smell this?"
"No," I said.
Honestly, I smelled nothing!
It's been three years since that conversation. Much has changed. Including my sense of smell.
I'm also no longer oblivious. Just eager to help others avoid the same pitfalls and connect the dots when it comes to environment and health.
About Andrea Fabry
I am a former journalist and the mother of nine children ranging in age from 28 to 12. My husband Chris, myself, and our children find ourselves in the desert of Arizona attempting to rebuild our health and our lives following a massive toxic mold exposure. The organization momsAWARE comes out of this crisis as a means to help educate and empower others on the subject of environmental health. Our family has also launched a natural line of personal care products called Just So, available at our Online Store.
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Onions in my moldy house went moldy too. I hear that's another sign?
ReplyDeleteLisa Petrison
We had the same problem in our contaminated house with our clothes in the washer! I never correlated the two. I guess we will not be taking our washer and dryer with us!
ReplyDeleteThank you for posting this Andrea. I have had conversations with other mold victims and we both noticed our dish towels would get mold on them all the time. Another thing is the drain rack. I thought it was normal to have mold on it/under it all the time. Even growing up, we had this problem (and I remember the black mold infested shower wall tile we had too growing up) Now, that we are in a safer environment, these things no longer happen but I often find myself double checking to see if the dish rag/drain rack have mold on them. We also had issues with humidifier filters getting moldy. Now, I would never use a humidifier knowing the dangers of mold growth from adding moisture to the air! I'd rather have it too dry...Another place is the inside of a toilet tank. We check our regularly now. It can signify high levels of indoor spores. As for the washer, leave the lib open when not in use lol I also remember my daughters clothes would get mold all over them and I'd have to throw them out. I never gave it a second thought :(
ReplyDeleteWow. Just. Wow.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to get your opinion - I like to make my own yogurt because it helps my gut.(why make my own? well, just beause)... But I have been concerned about airborne stuff lately because of our family all having weird skin rashes, etc. Do you think it's a good idea to be making your own yogurt when you cannot be sure of your air quality? Like, I *think* it's ok, but maybe this is a good reason to buy the storebought plain yogurt... Thoughts?
I have this same concern with people who keep their own sourdough starters. If you are propigating good yeast and bacteria, its likely you are providing a place for the bad to propigate too, and I just wonder how wise it is no matter how self-sufficient you are (or whatever your reasons) because of these risks
Oh, and about the clothes washer - I defiantely see that as a suspect place for sure! I never gave it a second thought when I washed in cold ALL the time, and then dried on "low" heat- but it dosen't kill the yeasts and mold, etc. Now I try to wash in hot water and it seems to keep my cloths from getting stinky a little longer (I guess I consider it normal for them to stink after sitting in the closed front-loader for 36 hours - but it was more like 24 when I used cold). I tend to add vinegar to the load whenever its my last load of the night (incase I don't get to it as quick as I'd like) - or to help a stinky load get rid of it's stink.
ReplyDeleteI also hold places like sump-pump holes (common in Northern US with basements) that can hold standing water and household dirt for long periods of time and the back-up drain on tubs and sinks suspect too. we always have trouble with black crud around our drains, and lately our tub backup drain as well. Gross.
Jenny,
ReplyDeleteIt's a great idea to make your own yogurt in order to be sure that it ferments for 24 hours. This insures that all the lactose (if using dairy products) is gone. As I understand it ...it's also the time when the good guys beat the bad guys...so assuming your air is reasonably clean the yogurt should be fine. Plus who knows about air quality for the store bought?
I ferment mine in mason jars in the deydrator.
Another positive to making your own... You control the purity of the milk product (coconut yogurt works well too.) You can get organic, no antibiotics, etc.
The same is true for sourdough...when the fermention is working, the good guys beat out the bad guys. In a severe mold situation this might not be the case.
Just some thoughts...
Lisa,
ReplyDeleteI've heard this about onions as well. I know that I could not leave our produce on the counter for long.
Thank you, Andrea. I respect your opinion a great deal. Usually, I only ferment my yogurt 4-8 hours since we do not have lactose issues -and since we are rather new to the heathiest way to eat yogurt, but what you are saying about the time makes sense.
ReplyDeleteYes, I always make yogurt with hormone/antibiotic free milk and occasionally organic. I use organic yogurt for the culture. It is SO much better than storebought plain (not to mention it lasts longer). Thank you!
Me too for all the above. I used to remark to my mother all the time about how my fruit bowl items would mold much faster than hers at her house.
ReplyDeleteAs things got worse, really odd things started happening. My vitamins and supplements got contaminated, not visibly, but enough to make Duncan sick. New ones were ok, but became "bad." He was not having detox or herxheimer reactions; he was reacting to the settled mold on the items and/or food.
He began to not be able to eat food that I prepared "in house." Things that washed or strained near the sink began to cause reactions.
And this was back in the good old days. As far as I know, onions are easily moldy and often come moldy - aspergillus niger I believe.
We left ou moldy environment moved into a relatively clean apt, and have new stuff. We were given a friend's italian leather couch set with a few tiny rips in it. We reacted to it, and sold it for like $150 about 2 days later. I noticed while the couch was here, my bread had mold on it. It has been awhile since we got rid of the couch, and the bread does not get moldy quickly anymore at all.
ReplyDeleteWe had the same problem with moldy clothes in the washer too! I used unscented detergent so I could really smell it. I just thought it was b/c we had a front loader. Of course, instead of investigating the cause, I just masked the symptoms by switching to a scented detergent. I'm sure that helped! Ha!
ReplyDeleteOur hand towels also got moldy. I would dry my face with one in the morning and in hindsight that was a huge indicator for me that our house had mold/high humidity. In fact, one way I was going to see if the remediation was successful was to put a damp hand towel in the house and just leave it there to see if I reacted to it. Never needed to see if it worked though since there were other issues.
About yogurt, I've never heard to leave it that long. Won't it be really sour? I just made a big batch with raw goat milk so I'm going to try it. What temp do you set the dehydrator? Usually my yogurt turns out too runny so I'm going to try it your way. Maybe it will agree with my husband better with the longer fermentation time because when he eats normal yogurt it makes him feel bloated. Do you think that could be caused by the lactose?
It wouldn't surprise me if he tolerated the 24 hour fermentation better. It doesn't taste any more sour to me. Raw goat milk typically makes thinner yogurt. You can strain it through an unbleached coffee filter to make thick yogurt. The whey that drips into the container is super healthy and can be used in lots of different ways. (this is how I make whey).
ReplyDeleteThe yogurt needs a steady 105-110 degrees. I've heard of some people keeping the dehydrator at 100 degrees. I do 105. I take all the trays out and put 1/2 gallon mason jars in. After 24 hours I skim off the top, stir it, and either strain it or put in the refrigerator. It seems to thicken once it's in the fridge and the kids don't mind it thinner. But if you take the time to strain it....you will LOVE how thick it is.
Andrea - me again - I have a question about your food dehydrator - what type or brand is it that allows you to run it without trays? I'm perplexed. I've been thinking about investing in one for quite some time and it would make sense to get one that could do yogurt too. I currently use my crockpot for the yogurt (as on the Stephanie O'Dea's Crockpot365 blog)
ReplyDeleteHave you considered showing us how you make yogurt? I know there is a real interest in this - you should see all the comments/teqniques on the yogurt post's comment section on the crockpot website.
Jenny,
ReplyDeleteFunny I woke up this morning and thought about making a tutorial! So thanks for the encouragement.
Excalibur is an excellent brand. It comes with 5 or 9 trays. I have the bigger version. Just take out as many trays as you need to fit whatever size mason jar.
Also I use the starter which is non-dairy from Custom Probiotics. Coconut yogurt can be made with this.
Check out the Excalibur and let me know what you think.
Jenny,
ReplyDeleteOne other thought. Have you conisdered making kefir with your milk? It's much easier and contains 35 strains of probiotic. According to website dedicated to the health benefits of kefir:
"Kefir contains several major strains of friendly bacteria not commonly found in yogurt (e.g. Lactobacillus Caucasus, Leuconostoc, Acetobacter species, Streptococcus species, Saccharomyces kefir and Torula kefir).”
You just mix the kefir grains with the milk and let it sit for 24 hours. You keep it lightly covered and once again the good guys should beat out the bad guys as far as air quality is concerned.
Just another thought.
Andrea - Yes, I have heard of keifer a lot this past year - it sounds like something I'd like!! I have a friend who makes it and we have been in talks about when I can come to her place so she can show me. I have also heard that water keifer can get fizzy, like pop (ok, soda - I'm from MN!!) - which is good cuz that is a major setback for me that I love the fizz and sweetness of pop - but need a better alternative :) I'll have to try it soon - I might just have to pick up some at the natural foods section of my grocery store next time I'm there just to try it.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your dehydrator name with me - I've looked at them on Amazon - It would be a hard sell to my husband, but maybe if we have a good summmer with our garden we'll justify the purchase :)
I love that you take time from your busy life to share with us all - I am inspired by how much a mother can do a 180* (while being sick herself) to help her family. Thank you!
Thanks for saying that, Jenny. I appreciate it. Let me know how you like the kefir!!
ReplyDeleteMy daughter's tub toys would grow a mushroom looking fungus whenever they weren't squeezed out prior to our remediation. Her new ducks haven't grown anything thus far!
ReplyDeleteI had a tremendous problem with my dish sponges/rags getting moldy in 3 days. I resorted to boiling them on the stove - it was nasty. I never connected the rapidity with which they 'soured' to moldy habitat. Thanks for sharing, ladies.
ReplyDeleteI've been making my own yogurt for years, but mine turns to curds and whey if left over 12 hrs.
My method is simple: In the morning, I scald milk in a double boiler (I add powdered milk to it before heating, in order to make a thick yogurt.) After 30", I shut off the heat and let it cool.
That evening, I add my starter (I freeze cubes of it in ice cube trays, then pull out my cube/batch). Put it in my oven with the oven light on for warmth. The next morning, I've got yogurt.
How much vinegar and/or baking soda do some of you use per load? I've tried the baking soda, but not the vinegar, nor a combination of the two. We don't seem to have visible mold on towels, just sour-smelling towels.
ReplyDeleteI use approx 1/2 cup for each load. I also include some disinfecting essential oil. Tea tree oil is excellent for this!
ReplyDeleteWe don't currently have a mold problem but I always follow this protocol simply to remain on the offense with mold.
Melody here again. Wondering about the mold spores coming out of my skin everywhere on my body - and even more so at stressful moments, if this could be a Herxheimer Reaction? I just read about that tonight, and realized it began when I started taking Grapefruit Seed Extract - and like clockwork happened everytime. And then again when the Dr. gave me one Diflucan antifungal pill (because I said I had a yeast infection).
ReplyDeleteAt that point, I was also drinking the Choraphyll water and taking a couple teaspoons of baking soda a day, which kills mold. Hence then, die off? Is that possibly the answer to what these invisible things are that are coming out of me and the towel or kleenex I use to wipe at them smells like mold?
Die-off is very real. When we started our first anti-fungal protocol two years ago there were incredible rashes that appeared for each one of us. There was so much detox happening that we were getting nosebleeds simply from living with each other!
ReplyDeleteSomeone might have asked this already. But I was wondering about mold in toilets? Clean them and a week later the drain is black again.
ReplyDeleteDo you have reason to believe there is a mold problem in this bathroom or behind a wall nearby? Sometimes these problems indicate a bigger problem.
ReplyDeleteIf this is ruled out, I would try the baking soda/white vinegar combination in the toilet. Scrub with pumice stone. Perhaps let food grade hydrogen peroxide soak in the water for awhile. Just some thoughts.
A brief History, in Jan. 2008 we vacated our home do to a leak that had been there for at least 5 yrs and caused mold to grow within the walls for awhile. We moved into a small rental for 1yr. An opportunity came up for us to move into the country which we wanted to do. The house house was old and of course there was a lot of issues but we stayed there for a year. A black colored mold covered everything that would be in basement at this house. We kept nothing down there although you could smell it come up through the house. We then moved to a modular that seemed pretty decent. We soon realized there were numerous untreated leaks and the mold was beginning to show through on the ceiling and around light fixtures in the bathroom. Not to mention the closet where all of our stuff was covered in green powder. At this time every vehicle we owned broke down and my husband had no way to work. I was pregnant with our 5th baby 38wks. We moved taking only clothes and what we felt were non contaminated items. Left anything we could not see inside. Couches, mattresses and many other things were burned including some wood furniture we owned. We moved into a small 2 bedroom house that looked great but had a slight musty smell. The same week I had a 5th baby. What a blessing she is. Soon black mold started growing on the bottom 3ft of drywall in basement. We were not aware there had been a flood and since it was my Step fathers house we felt really bad. Considering most of my family thinks I am a hypochondriac about mold. He did go down there and cut most of it out. Although there was still a lot left. I had been praying for God to help us find a place that we could afford and help us get on our feet and give my poor husband a break. He works in a foundry, and although we are very thankful for his job, it is very hard and draining. A new friend introduced us to her in laws that had relocated for career purposes. They said they would rent us their house they had been renovating for 20yrs. They had been gone for about 6yr when someone broke in and stole some copper and appliances. They were willing to rent us the house for a rent we could afford considering they didnt want it vacant. It has been completely remodeled for the most part. The roof is in bad condition and there have been a lot of leaks. There are currently more leaks. We didnt know untill after we moved in the owner mentioned that he had to put a sump pump in awhile back because the basement flooded and there was mold growing on the outside of the fridge. I have noticed that if dishes are left in sink for more than a day they are covered with a black film. Our plastic bowls now have black spots that wont come off. Our toilets are black in the bowl and a week later after I clean them they are black again. I have poured peroxide in the holding tank and cleaned with vinegar and baking soda for years. I havent used harsh chemicals in a long time. We have lived here since Sept and we have been sick the whole time. My family thinks I am already crazy and I am beginning to wonder if I am. I am starting to feel like my husband thinks I am crazy also. There is no way we could ever afford any type of mold testing. We are pay check to paycheck and I fear saying anything about this issue to anyone because I know they think I am nuts. I have been told you can not get away from mold in Indiana. I keep holding on to the thought of God blessing us with this house how could it possibly have mold? AGAIN.
ReplyDeleteYour story illustrates how critical it is to test a home before moving in. Choosing a safe home is complex and requires a great deal of knowledge. Fortunately you have the knowledge that water damage and the resulting contamination are a true health hazard. I hope you have the opportunity to start fresh with no clothing from this current environment.
ReplyDeleteYou are not crazy...please let me know if there is something I can do to help you.
Well I pulled the fridge out of the cubby for curiosity and the wall was covered in mold and the side of the fridge. I was able to clean it off with vinegar and peroxide. That was all I could take.I have called ERMI and ordering a kit.I just seen here on your site the cost. Another place I had checked somewhere I thought was 500 for kit then 100 per sample to read. I couldn't have afforded that then. So we are finally going to test this house mainly to appease my family. Plus, so I don't feel crazy. We did test our first home with a swab test. All they told us was we had stachybotrys growing in the wall. The last house was obvious it was stachybotrys all over the drywall in basement.
ReplyDeleteIf you would just please pray for us.
I'd be happy to look at the results with you...this is my direct email:
ReplyDeleteandrea@chrisfabry.com
Good for you for taking this next step.
Andrea, Is there a humidity gauge that you would recommend? I want to keep track of the humidity in my home and not sure what humidity gauge works best. You can spend anywhere from $10 on up. Are the inexpensive ones worth it?
ReplyDeleteI have no idea! I do know that a humidity level of less than 50% is recommended, but have not explored the various options for measuring this! I will look into it. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteAndrea